Interview with Grandfather, Part
Magic, Conspiracies, and 'the Predator'
Interview with Grandfather:
~ Part Two
Grandfather Pages Index
Channelers note: The material on this page was
channeled in 2017 and is now being published for the
first time, in early 2021. It is a continuation of
both the Interview with
Grandfather and the Interview
with God. And for more understanding about the
difference between 'sentience' and 'consciousness,'
please see this
page on our sister site.
Hello Grandfather. Time seems
to be speeding up even more lately, as we head
toward the opening of the fifth dimension you talked
about in Part
Two of this interview. And lately it seems
that more and more people are waking up from the
deep trance of the cultural conditioning. Is this
the Apocalypse that has been prophesied?
Thank you, Grandfather. How does this
work? Outside reality seems very solid and real
compared to what's available to inner experience. We
can see things happening in the imagination, but they
easily come and go and don't seem nearly as real or
solid as what's outside.
"Your word 'apocalypse' means
'uncovering,' 'disclosing' 'revealing,' or
'awakening.' And yes, you can see that this
process is becoming more fully experienced in
humanity. The Spirit of your Creation has spoken
about this when he said, 'For a very long time
your own and all of humanity's evolution toward
wholeness has been a great mystery. Now it is
becoming the great awakening.'
"The awakenings you are now experiencing can draw
your attention in either of two directions. One
direction is outward to newly-revealed phenomena,
new scientific discoveries and technologies,
political extremism, and uncovering
conspiracies—both positive and negative—all out
there in 'the world,' On the positive side,
awakenings are happening and movements are
beginning to show up that may help you and all of
humanity awaken more quickly and deeply.
"However, focusing on the outer, either
positive or negative, will distract you from your
own evolution. Focusing on events and phenomena in
the outer world will not be helpful in your
healing to wholeness, and will bring you no closer
to realizing the Mother's dream—unless you use
them as reflections
of what has been going on inside of you.
"The greater truth is that everything that is
happening outside of you is a reflection of
something happening inside of you. The real
Apocalypse, the real awakening has been quietly
unfolding deep inside of you, waiting for your
recognition and participation.
"When you look at the world and its events through
the lens of truth—that everything outside of you
is a reflection of something inside of you, you
will be on the right track to truly understanding
the real apocalypse, which is your own awakening.
"When you understand that the outer reality
is being generated from inside of you, you can use
the outer apocalyptic events to help reveal to
yourself how you have been generating the outer
reality you've been experiencing. And more
importantly—how your inner healing work can change
outer reality to manifest the deepest desire in
Creation, the realization and manifestation of the
"There is a much larger, deeper and
grander Self—who you truly are. The world you
perceive outside of you seems real because the
ordinary, personal self who perceives it believes
that it is real. And this is because the
relatively small, personal self you have been
conditioned to identify with and call 'me' has
been a part of the world that it has believed to
be real. This part of you—and all of what it calls
'the world'—has existed only in the reality of
your mind, not in actual reality.
"In your mind you've been seeing yourself as a
part of a world that is much larger than you.
You've been seeing that you are one of several
billion others much like yourself, and of course
you believe what you see. The difficulty with this
is that 'beliefs' and all of the other data your
mind perceives are made of thoughts.
"Thoughts, concepts, ideas, visions and beliefs do
not have a reality outside of the mind. The mind
makes models of real reality in the quasi-real
forms of images and words, and of course to the
mind these models appear to be 'real.' The mind
makes models of everything that you perceive,
including your personal self—the mind's model of
you is the person you 'believe' or 'think' you
are. You have been living primarily in a
dream-like state, perceiving the world as an
'objective' reality that includes 'you' as a part
"The actual, real world does exist. And it can be
experienced—but only in the one present moment,
'now'—a wonderful place outside of mind. When
attention is placed fully in the present moment,
mind must stop. Time stops here as well, because
time as a linear sequence of events is only a
concept, and it requires a mind to conceive it.
"So, you ask to know how this works, that the
outer is in fact only a reflection of the inner.
You can begin by feeling into Body and become
present in what Body is experiencing right now. Become
Body, and feel your connection with all
sentience. Make the first chakra your right place,
and from here you can easily become fully present
in yourself, as Body.
"As your feeling, sentient presence expands in the
first chakra and connects with universal
sentience, the Universal Feminine, you become the
bridge between the two attentions. You are the
sentient individual in the first attention—and at
the same time you are becoming the sentient
Universe in the second attention.
"This is something that can not be experienced or
known by thinking about it. No amount of modeling
will be able to accurately depict this reality.
However, you can feel the truth of it—if you are
first willing to lose yourself, lose your identity
as mind or Spirit.
"When you take the scary deep dive
into feeling, you can inhabit sentience and know
the secrets that her magnetic essence has been
holding for you. It's only here, in the reality of
feeling, that you can know the truth of your whole
Self. The uncovering, revealing of the deeply
sentient truth of who you really are is the real
Thank you, Grandfather. Scary is
right, something very powerful must be keeping us
from taking that deep dive you just mentioned. Why
has it been so difficult to feel into the dark
energies just below the surface of difficult
"Two factors are involved in the
automatic, conditioned denial of feelings. The
Human mind has not yet been exposed to, and
therefore has been unable to model, the depths of
pain and suffering being experienced in the lost
Will of this Creation. This has meant there hasn't
been an easy bridge that would allow you to
gradually wade into the deep ocean of hellish
energies involved in being fully present with some
of the most vital parts of the Will.
"The thought of a sudden dive into Hell still
triggers the Spirit of this Creation who resides
in you. He re-experiences the deeply imprinted
terror that says he will be annihilated,
magnetically consumed by the very uncomfortable
and intensely painful feelings of the severely
wounded and lost fragments of the Universal
"This terror is of course imprinted
in humans as well, and for the most part has gone
unfelt. This colossal terror has been hidden from
your awareness under the many layers of deep shock
within this universal imprint.
"The other factor in the automatic denial of
feeling is the ancient conspiracy to hide the true
source of worldly power in manifestation from all
but the 'initiated.' This has been a
multidimensional conspiracy underlying all of the
other conspiracies that are now beginning to be
revealed in the Apocalypse.
"A war has been raging between the 'light' and the
'dark' at all levels of existence and throughout
each of the seven Creations. Virtually everyone
has had to choose a side. And even though most
have chosen the light, one's 'light' has very
often been another's 'dark.'
"You can readily see this phenomenon at work now
on Earth. There are many instances of individuals,
groups and nations choosing the light—and then
going to battle with their enemies, upon whom they
have projected the dark. If you wish to break the
spell of this ancient, primordial struggle and
know the real truth of existence, you must somehow
embrace both the light and the dark. By choosing
only one, you deny the other in yourself—and it
becomes projected out into the world.
"Integrating the light and dark inside of you is
the easiest and most effective way to break the
power of conspiracies. Forsake all mental
evaluations and all 'notions of rightdoing and
wrongdoing'—and align yourself with the one, whole
"You can do this when you have full, loving
acceptance of your deep desire to heal, a taste,
or at least a tolerance for intense experience,
and a healthy appreciation for the power of the
very negative energies that have been keeping your
consciousness away from the universal Will within
you—the very essence that can manifest your
deepest dreams, once you are fully aligned with
Channelers: Thanks Grandfather.
Please say more about the ancient conspiracy to
conceal the true source of worldly power.
"The source of all power is in the
Will, which is deeply sentient—not in
consciousness or Spirit. However, there have been
some very clever spirits who have co-opted the
manifesting Will by uniting Lucifer and Ahriman in
support of Ahriman's agenda to control the Will.
This universal conspiracy between Ahriman and
Lucifer is what underlies all of the power-over
conspiracies you detect in the world, and at every
level of manifestation.
"'Black magic,' for instance is performed
successfully by Ahriman using the power of the
Will essence that Lucifer has gained dominion over
and calls his own, as if it's his Will. At the
human level, this manifests as a magician whose
conscious mind fixes on something he thinks he
wants, and then enlists the aid of Lucifer's
ill-gotten Will essence. However, 'white magic'
has been no better, just as choosing the light
hasn't been a real improvement over choosing the
dark. Either choice denies the other, and is
therefore a choice of fragmentation and denial.
"No matter how hard he may have tried to be
working for the good of all, 'Ahriman the
Magician' has been only a fragment of Spirit.
Without the full lovingness of my Grace, Spirit
has been unconsciously infecting his
manifestations with at least some degree of
standoffish, careless unlovingness toward the
Will. And remember, for the most part, Ahriman has
had the role of 'God' in this Creation.
"Magic, however does not need to be
invoked for conspiracies of power to proliferate.
The whispered 'deal' between Ahriman and Lucifer
has been made whenever two or more agree to
something they know is in support of their own
power, and not necessarily for the good of all.
This greedy hunger for power has become a virulent
virus in the psyche of humanity.
"Everyone who participates in or is affected by
your civilization, whether as victim or
perpetrator, has been infected by this virus that
has been successfully hiding itself deep within
you and feeding off of your emotional energies,
especially fear. And without realizing it, you
have become possessed by it.
"When you see evil outside of you, you are seeing
the reflection of something that has been hiding
deep in your own psyche. When you fight against
the evil, it infects you and you become it. Any
struggle with it strengthens its energy and
deepens its hold on you.
Again, without realizing it, you
have become possessed by it. In some humans this
possession has been temporary, occurring and
subsiding, only to return again. And in many
humans the possession has been permanent.
Thank you, Grandfather. We have been
working with this phenomenon for a while now. And
from what we've learned, this psychic virus you
mention has been called by many names, and most
predominately by indigenous cultures who could
clearly see and feel it in the greed of the European
explorers and conquerors that invaded them.
The 'predator,' 'flyers,' 'the
parasite,' 'the voice of knowledge,' and 'wetiko'
are examples of terms we've discovered that have
been used by indigenous people, and the ancient
Gnostic called them 'Arcons.' Also, by its nature,
it seems to be a hive-like entity where it is both
one and many at the same time.
We've settled on calling it 'the
Predator' because of a special quality or trait this
terms includes. From what we've been discovering
(with help from the Folks), this entity has been
harvesting our Will essence as its food, just as a
predator in nature eats the flesh of its prey for
Part of the way it functions seems to
be to sow fear, division and separation. It seems to
oppose the healing work and anything we do to move
more in the direction of wholeness. And it seems to
defy any and all attempts to integrate it. What can
you tell us about this?
"The predator, this obstructor of
healing and freedom, this consumer of Will, is not
actually a part of you that can be integrated at
the level of the personal self, or even at the
level of the whole Being you truly are. The
predator is part of all manifestation and cannot
be integrated or redeemed by any identity other
than the One who first spawned Manifestation, Original
Thank you Grandfather, what can you
tell us about the origins of the predator?
The Origins of the
"The Predator's fundamental
function of sewing division and separation and
causing fragmentation has been present since
before manifestation itself. It first appeared in
Heart—the unmanifest, one whole Being who
created a game like 'Hide and Seek' with itself so
it could experience separation and temporary loss
of its full identity as the singular 'All That
"The game required that there be a
kind of self-denial where the identity of the
whole became lost to its fragments. However, the
identity of the whole is always present—deep in
the timeless one, present moment, and at the core
of every one of its fragments.
"In splitting apart into fragments,
Original Heart temporarily forgot its default,
ever-present wholeness and went into a kind of
dream where it was no longer All That Is—so it
could experience being less than its totality, and
therefore be able to experience being with and
"Language is difficult here.
Already we're using time-based metaphors to point
to events that have been happening since before
time begins. And of course language, a product of
the mind, cannot accurately communicate the state
of things prior to mind.
"These words can only point to
truths outside of mind, but not actually state
them. This communication will likely not make
sense to the mind, so it's important to read
slowly enough to feel into what is being conveyed
without having to think about it. After feeling
into the information, you can always check back
later with the mind about it.
"The game was simple at its core.
When Original Heart wasn't 'wholing' (becoming
whole), it was fragmenting. In making up the game,
Original Heart devised a way to temporarily forget
itself as the whole, and instead find its identity
in its parts, its fragments. This forgetting and
fragmenting 'device' has evolved to become the
prime directive of the Predator—divide and
separate. And this was the device that was used to
separate Original Heart's Spirit essence from its
"As the original explosion into
manifestation was happening, the
Destroyer was born. And as the Folks
have shared, a part of Spirit could not bear
the pain its Will was experiencing in separating
from him, so he tried to take all of manifestation
back into the Void by imploding with his Will.
He was unsuccessful in this
attempt, but the pattern of a very powerful Will
to take back Manifestation, to destroy it has ever
since been deeply embedded in the fabric of
Manifestation. Creation now has its
antithesis—destruction. The cosmic dividing and
separating principle of fragmentation evolved into
the Destroyer's weapon of choice and became
empowered by the Destroyer's frantic determination
to tear down manifestation."
"However, it is important to
understand that when you work on behalf of the
light in opposition to the darkness, you become
the very essence of what you are opposing. The
good news is that you are now awakening to all of
this—in the times of revelations, the apocalypse.
"The ancient conspiracy to hide the source of
worldly power has been hiding inside of you
without your knowledge or consent—and through your
contact with others, replicating itself like a
virus. Stop resisting what has been trying to take
you down, and find your way clear to instead take
responsibility for it and own it. Loving magic is
Thank you, Grandfather. How do we
find and use a truly loving magic? And is this how
we can dispel the power of the dark and unloving
magic that seems so prevalent now, and manifest the
possible for truly loving magic to succeed over
power magic, however this possibility has only
recently opened for Humans. The magic of love is not
in Spirit's domain. Love magic works directly from
the sentient, feminine, magnetic Will; this is her
magic, her way of expressing manifestation.
kind of magic is only possible when the Will is
totally free of Spirit's agenda and his influence in
her process of manifestation. Here is where
consciousness, Spirit can have his right place in
manifesting—when he's fully in the service of
sentience, the Universal Feminine, when the
conscious Being serves and obeys its sentient Will,
the Will of Creation.
"This means that your conscious mind
may have no idea of how the manifesting happens or
what will manifest—and yet you unconditionally love
and support your sentient Will and her process of
unfolding whatever she wishes to become manifest.
And of course, you unconditionally love whatever
your Will has freely manifested.
"Long ago, Lucifer trapped the most
powerful parts of the manifesting Will and harnessed
their deeply feminine, magnetic power to manifest
his 'creations.' Ahriman has since co-opted much of
Lucifer's captured Will essence and enlisted its
support in his ultimate agenda to 'save' Creation by
eliminating all need for the 'problematic' Feminine.
Anything but having to feel the deep terror of being
annihilated in the magnetic draw of her painful
"It has now become time for Humans to
both Lucifer and Ahriman in themselves and
bring real freedom to the manifesting Will essence
they have dominated and used to promote the
power-over agendas you have seen all around you, and
are now beginning to find inside of yourselves.
"The way will clear to manifest the
Mother's dream when you have brought all that you
have been denying into the unconditional love of
Loving Spirit in you—your own fully loving
consciousness. And in so doing, you will have
manifested the dream for all of Creation.
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